COVID-19 vaccines are becoming more available around the world, and people are starting to return to their places of work, recreation, and worship. However, life still feels far from normal for many of us. How have the lives of Muslims changed during the past year? What can we learn from the experiences of early Muslims who endured similar plagues?
Host Mohamad Zaoud explores these questions and more as he speaks to Dr. Rania Awaad, Research Fellow at Yaqeen Institute and lead author of the paper “Coping with Pandemics: Psychological and Spiritual Lessons from Islamic History.”
DoubleTake will be going on hiatus during Ramadan and will resume on May 19th insha'Allah.
📨 Share your feedback! https://yqn.io/podcastfeedback
📫 Join the newsletter! https://yqn.io/doubletake-email-signup
👍🏻 Follow us on Instagram! https://instagram.com/yaqeenpodcast
COVID-19 vaccines are becoming more available around the world, and people are starting to return to their places of work, recreation, and worship. However, life still feels far from normal for many of us. How have the lives of Muslims changed during the past year? What can we learn from the experiences of early Muslims who endured similar plagues?
Host Mohamad Zaoud explores these questions and more as he speaks to Dr. Rania Awaad, Research Fellow at Yaqeen Institute and lead author of the paper “Coping with Pandemics: Psychological and Spiritual Lessons from Islamic History.”
DoubleTake will be going on hiatus during Ramadan and will resume on May 19th insha'Allah.
📨 Share your feedback! https://yqn.io/podcastfeedback
📫 Join the newsletter! https://yqn.io/doubletake-email-signup
👍🏻 Follow us on Instagram! https://instagram.com/yaqeenpodcast
00:00
covert 19 vaccines are becoming more
00:02
available around the world
00:03
and people are starting to return to
00:05
their places of work
00:06
recreation and worship but although
00:08
we're returning to familiar places
00:10
life still feels far from normal for
00:13
many of us
00:14
how have our lives changed during the
00:16
past year what have we learned
00:17
and what can we learn from the
00:19
experiences of earlier muslims
00:21
who endured similar plagues
00:27
welcome to double take a podcast by akin
00:29
institute
00:30
about questions and ideas around the
00:32
islam and muslims
00:33
that give us pause remember to subscribe
00:35
on spotify
00:36
youtube apple podcast or wherever you
00:39
get your podcasts
00:40
i'm muhammad zhad and today on the show
00:42
we're discussing some of the
00:43
psychological
00:44
and spiritual lessons we can take from
00:46
the covet experience
00:48
with me is dr ranya awad lead author of
00:51
the paper
00:52
coping with pandemic psychological and
00:54
spiritual lessons
00:55
from islamic history dr anya assalamu
00:58
alaikum and welcome to double tech
01:02
it's my pleasure to be here in honor
01:05
thank you thank you so much for joining
01:06
us dr ranya
01:08
you're a clinical associate professor of
01:10
psychiatry at stanford mashallah
01:12
and you're the director of the muslim
01:14
mental health and islamic psychology lab
01:17
you also studied classical islamic
01:19
studies in damascus and served as the
01:21
first
01:22
female professor of islamic law at
01:24
zaitan zaituna college
01:27
where you talk and quranic sciences is
01:29
my understanding
01:31
so i'm going to ask you a few questions
01:32
about our lives
01:34
but i'd like to start off with one
01:37
question that only you
01:39
would be able to answer right from the
01:40
outset so my question to you is
01:43
how has the pandemic affected our
01:45
psychological
01:46
and spiritual well-being on an
01:48
individual level
01:55
i think you're absolutely right about
01:56
the psychological and spiritual being
01:59
you know subhanallah it's been a year as
02:01
you mentioned and what a year it's been
02:03
and in the midst of this year we
02:05
actually have been very interested in
02:07
trying to figure out exactly the same
02:08
thing because anecdotally and amongst
02:10
ourselves
02:11
we all have our coveted stories we all
02:14
know and can tell you about
02:15
how how different life has been how
02:17
difficult life has been and we also
02:19
panel also had
02:20
our share of stories either directly
02:22
impacting ourselves and our family
02:24
members loved ones community members
02:26
that have either had a copit illness or
02:28
actually have passed away from it
02:29
bellows pontiac grant
02:31
those people um genna and and ease from
02:34
patients for their families
02:35
so it's been it's been quite a year and
02:37
so when you think about
02:38
psychologically and spiritually how are
02:40
we doing
02:42
the research studies that we've done
02:43
actually in collaboration with euclidean
02:45
and the stanford muslim and health
02:46
islamic psychology lab
02:48
you know has brought about such a really
02:51
interesting data we thought
02:52
as researchers that for sure that given
02:56
how difficult life has been
02:57
before the pandemic that when the
02:59
pandemic hit it would be that much
03:00
harder
03:01
and although it has been what's
03:03
interesting is that
03:04
spiritually speaking there are many who
03:07
are actually saying that this period of
03:08
time has been
03:09
at a time of getting closer to allah
03:11
subhanahu wa ta'ala a reminder
03:14
you know that this this very microscopic
03:17
thing called the coronavirus that we
03:19
can't even see
03:20
how that put the whole world as a
03:22
standstill has actually made us stop and
03:24
really reflect on
03:25
allah is in charge that he is boss
03:29
capital b and that he is you know he
03:32
could put everything and just make
03:33
the whole world as we know it kind of
03:34
shift and come to a stand still come to
03:37
its knees
03:38
literally prayer wise i mean to say and
03:41
um that's what we found our research has
03:43
actually found that over 75 percent
03:46
of muslims stay that in this last year
03:48
their faith or dependence on allah has
03:50
gotten stronger
03:52
right and that's a huge number i'll tell
03:55
you in comparison to
03:56
to non-muslims for example there are pew
03:58
research study did exam
04:00
study where they looked at all faith
04:02
groups and people of no faith
04:04
in the us and they found the number is
04:05
much higher than what they expected at
04:07
24
04:09
but our number is more like 75 right so
04:12
there's something about muslims in islam
04:14
the resiliency this deen gives us
04:16
that has actually allowed us to cope
04:18
better
04:19
you know i'd love to i'd love to hear
04:22
more about that because um
04:24
you know alhamdulillah i think in some
04:26
in some aspects of my life
04:28
anecdotally as you mentioned um i i feel
04:31
like i've come closer to allah yes he's
04:33
in control
04:34
and you know when i feel um that i'm
04:37
gonna be challenged with
04:38
earning a living during a covert um
04:41
experience that allah somehow you know
04:44
finds a way to
04:46
to give me a risk but
04:49
um on the other hand i've faced some
04:52
challenges
04:52
personally in maintaining my
04:55
spirituality
04:56
like i enjoyed the whole the whole idea
04:58
of praying um
05:00
home that was that was quite you know uh
05:03
that was a blessing it was spiritual my
05:04
family was together
05:06
but at the same time um my religiosity
05:09
is probably
05:12
linked to community service and i wasn't
05:15
able to
05:16
go out there on the front lines and help
05:18
and organize
05:19
and and support as much as i'm used to
05:23
and i was uh recently reading an article
05:26
in the atlantic about how covert has
05:29
basically demolished many friendship
05:33
circles
05:34
um and for me that's one of them like my
05:37
friends have become a lot
05:38
less fewer like i've got you know deeper
05:41
connections with fewer people
05:42
um but that broad spectrum of
05:46
muslims that you see at the mosque or
05:48
community
05:49
uh activities has kind of disintegrated
05:52
and it's affected my spirituality so
05:54
do you mind just talking uh more to the
05:57
to the research that you did and
05:59
is this just um was a momentary
06:03
spike in people's spirituality or
06:06
are they going to be residual effects on
06:09
on people's faith
06:10
i think that's that's really really
06:12
important and as most researchers will
06:14
tell you this is room for more
06:15
research to really figure out what we
06:17
did along with
06:19
along with the octane is really look at
06:21
um three stages
06:22
you know the first the first study
06:24
actually came out right
06:25
at the beginning within the first week
06:27
of kovit so march
06:28
of 2020 and then there was a second um
06:32
you know pulse checking right where we
06:34
kind of check the pulse again
06:36
right around um you know pre ramadan
06:39
because there was always this fear of
06:40
like they'll be the very first ramadan
06:42
as you mentioned
06:42
a different ramadan than ones we've ever
06:44
had before
06:46
and then again a third pulse check in
06:49
uh post ramadan to see what would happen
06:51
what was it really like
06:53
and then there was a fourth one actually
06:54
right around the summer when there was
06:56
here in the us there was a lot of
06:58
tension of you know racial injustice and
07:00
just all kinds of societal
07:02
um historically societal issues that
07:04
have really come
07:05
came to a head over the summer so we
07:07
kind of pulse checked all throughout to
07:09
see what was happening
07:10
and absolutely would want to continue
07:12
checking that so what
07:13
i'm presenting to you is really data
07:16
from
07:16
you know about 9 000 muslims globally
07:20
throughout these different stages and
07:23
what we're finding is that even though
07:25
yes
07:25
there is yes there's more mental health
07:27
concerns than before
07:28
yes there's more difficulty than before
07:31
somehow psychologically and spiritually
07:34
there is still this again compared to
07:38
other faith groups right and compared to
07:39
other groups of people
07:40
there's more kind of this connection
07:43
with the divine
07:44
um and i i can't help but imagine that
07:46
this is something that
07:48
is very indigenous to the muslim faith
07:50
there is something about
07:51
the resiliency building and the
07:53
understanding of this life
07:54
this dunya that we're in is
07:58
the the abode of tribulation right
08:01
and that what's coming after this will
08:03
be better and so the kind of patience
08:06
that we live through that subruin jimmy
08:08
that beautiful patience that we live
08:10
through
08:10
even when it's difficult even when
08:12
things seem like they're crumbling even
08:14
like you mentioned job concerns and
08:15
monetary financial concerns all of these
08:18
things kind of understanding that if
08:19
allah sent us something
08:21
difficult he will send with it it's ease
08:24
right in namaste right that kind of
08:26
concept
08:27
so yes i don't want to oversimplify a
08:29
very very complex
08:30
issue but there's something very
08:32
beautiful about
08:33
the kind of resiliency that islam gives
08:35
us i think
08:37
you are comparing us to other faiths and
08:39
you mentioned that you know
08:40
uh it where we're at 75 of people
08:43
feeling closer to
08:45
to god than than those of other faiths
08:47
but there's generally speaking a net
08:48
positive effect on spirituality as i'm
08:50
understanding from the research
08:52
correct that's absolutely right
08:55
i i wanted to kind of draw just on
08:58
on europe and america after world war
09:01
one and two
09:02
um uh based on kind of what i've read
09:05
i've i've seen just a general trajectory
09:08
of people being
09:09
less faithful or less spiritual
09:12
after world war one and two maybe that's
09:15
because there were
09:16
you know a hundred million casualties um
09:19
so from a psychological perspective
09:22
uh people probably lost faith in in a
09:25
god
09:26
um when it was two you know christian
09:28
groups i guess fighting each other
09:29
on um in world war one at least and
09:32
uh and on a practical level with less
09:36
less people out there doing community
09:39
work
09:40
women having to look after their family
09:43
and without the nucleus of the family
09:45
husband and wife and kids
09:47
the sunday sunday church became less
09:50
active
09:51
so physically people were less religious
09:54
and mentally people were less spiritual
09:57
do we see the same thing in islamic
09:59
history with regards to
10:01
pandemics or is this just
10:05
um is this just unique to to other
10:07
faiths
10:08
i think these are really important
10:10
questions in fact
10:12
i would say that we were curious of the
10:13
exact same thing there was there was
10:15
um really the the impetus for doing the
10:19
study that we did that we publish
10:20
on pandemics and islamic history was
10:22
exactly to answer your question
10:24
because it's you know this pandemic is
10:27
definitely
10:27
the one we are currently experiencing in
10:29
modern history but it's not the first
10:31
it's certainly not the first epidemic
10:33
and there have been many a plague
10:34
in human history before this so what did
10:37
the people of old
10:38
do what are the people before us our
10:40
predecessors the ones who
10:42
you know clearly we derive from them
10:44
right so what what is it and especially
10:46
the muslim ones we're very curious
10:48
because islamic history
10:49
is you know kind of riddled with
10:51
different plagues over time and how did
10:53
muslims
10:53
respond and did they use islamic
10:56
spirituality in this
10:57
or not and i think that is a key
10:59
difference if you will
11:00
then maybe some other reports that you
11:02
were reading which which are very true i
11:04
want to say this
11:05
that is reality but where are the
11:07
muslims in the story
11:08
what were they doing and what we found
11:11
and this is what the paper highlights
11:12
um anecdotally all kinds of stories
11:16
in the history books of muslims that
11:19
talk about how
11:20
they came together and how some of
11:23
sometimes
11:24
when it was important to isolate they
11:25
isolated so there was kind of both
11:27
happening
11:28
there was a coming together and an
11:29
isolating um depending on the contagion
11:32
or the issue that was that they were
11:33
facing at the time
11:35
and as a society right there was this
11:38
kind of like we have to move forward
11:40
um the what you find in islamic history
11:43
related to the plagues
11:45
is uh you know a lot of the same kind of
11:48
verses and ayats of quran that we're
11:50
hearing now in this year of the
11:51
coven 19 pandemic urging us and
11:54
reminding us that this is a
11:56
you know this is a test and tribulation
11:57
from allah that ease will come after
11:59
this
12:00
and also reminding us the importance of
12:03
doing our civic duties and due diligence
12:06
right
12:06
of you know now and this year it's all
12:08
been about you know social
12:10
distance and wash your hands frequently
12:11
and sanitize and wear your masks and all
12:13
of this
12:14
and there have been parallels to all of
12:16
these things historically amongst
12:18
muslims as well
12:19
so and a lot of times the scholars are
12:22
using
12:22
islamic uh principles or proofs
12:26
to show how those things are important
12:28
so it's almost like look if you don't
12:29
want to listen to
12:30
your you know national or federal
12:32
guidelines listen to the sunnah the
12:34
prophets of the audio center which is
12:36
actually very intriguing and interesting
12:37
so it's almost like a parallel almost
12:39
like a repeating of certain things that
12:41
have happened historically for the
12:42
muslims
12:43
so if we're going to use ramadan
12:45
specifically as just like a
12:47
scenario so we're saying spiritually
12:50
generally speaking muslims are closer to
12:52
allah during the pandemic
12:55
but there are a lot of aspects of
12:57
ramadan that are
12:58
directly affected obviously the the
13:01
prayers in the mosque and hopefully this
13:03
year
13:04
things are getting better but also the
13:06
idea of
13:07
charity and community service um and i
13:10
know
13:10
firsthand that the the charity sector
13:12
has been
13:13
severely affected on two fronts one is
13:16
um
13:17
the the quality of projects is limited
13:19
just because of logistical purposes so
13:21
people can
13:22
can no longer fly to certain areas where
13:24
they can you know
13:25
run projects but also the whole
13:29
idea of caring for other societies
13:33
caring for global causes people are a
13:37
little bit
13:37
more self-centered without sounding
13:42
negative because they're worried about
13:44
their own financial situation their own
13:46
community situation
13:48
they're less worried about people
13:51
overseas who are who are doing it tough
13:53
uh have you seen anything in your
13:55
research that
13:57
uh that suggests that it has a negative
14:00
the whole covert experience has had a
14:01
negative experience
14:03
on uh on charity work or
14:06
on on caring for uh for society beyond
14:10
your immediate circle well i think
14:13
definitely
14:13
this is true in terms of the charity
14:15
sector that there are um
14:17
there are i would say the traditional
14:20
classical ways of fundraising and of
14:23
you know having uh contributing
14:26
charitably has been affected i do agree
14:28
with that very much
14:29
i do also wonder though if like many
14:32
other things that have happened with
14:32
kovid
14:33
it opened up our eyes to different ways
14:36
of doing things or kind of
14:37
shifting the way because that's that's
14:40
how i would like to see this as much as
14:41
possible is
14:42
you know in all of this and in all of
14:44
the covet experience
14:45
it you know what kind of messaging is
14:47
the loss of hands-on is sending to us
14:48
humans right
14:49
like you know whether it be health and
14:52
wealth
14:52
you know or whether it be other aspects
14:54
of our daily lives you know and wealth
14:56
being one of those so when you think
14:57
about charity
14:58
you know i i have to say here that i um
15:01
you know if i'm going to quote uh you
15:03
know imam shafiri for example
15:05
if you allow me to who who is very
15:07
particular when it comes to zakat
15:09
alms charity to give it locally or
15:12
within a 50 mile radius of where you
15:14
live
15:14
and other opinions change and mashallah
15:17
and hammed it up for the mercy of the
15:18
different opinions on
15:19
how to give your zakat so as you know
15:21
can be given anywhere but zakat he was
15:23
very particular about
15:24
and i think about how something like
15:26
this has really um
15:28
changed it realigned it it means a cat
15:31
has to be given regardless
15:32
but i wonder if what happens now because
15:34
his whole theory mama shafi's was if you
15:36
give it if every person who
15:38
owes a cat gives it within 50 miles of
15:40
where they live
15:41
then every community is self-sufficient
15:43
and takes care of its
15:45
self essentially and it's a ripple
15:46
effect all the way out and you know that
15:48
was his theory and others agreed or
15:50
disagreed with him
15:51
and when you think about what's
15:52
happening with kovic that sort of
15:55
kind of organically happened that way
15:57
where a lot of the giving was
15:59
kind of focused more locally than it was
16:01
internationally
16:04
interesting yeah it is it is very very
16:06
interesting actually subhanallah
16:08
how it just there's been like a movement
16:10
i think in the last
16:11
few years in western societies where
16:14
there's there's a
16:14
there's a bigger focus on local zakat um
16:18
and i subhanallah i think this has just
16:20
uh sped that up
16:21
and realigned our uh our understanding
16:25
of zakat um
16:26
i wanna before moving forward i i wanna
16:28
kind of go back to
16:30
um the the idea of family and the effect
16:33
um
16:33
the pandemic has had on family like
16:35
countless research has suggested that
16:38
there's more pressures on family i mean
16:40
due to financial reasons or
16:42
um just being uh stuck with the family
16:45
in four wars for for
16:46
extended periods of times uh have you
16:49
seen in the research that this
16:51
has had an adverse effect on muslim
16:55
marriages and muslim families oh it's
16:57
it's definitely had
16:59
a different effect for short in many
17:01
cases yes adverse
17:02
in are specific cases i'll tell you what
17:05
i'm
17:05
referring to you know in situations
17:08
where
17:09
the um the household or the
17:12
place where a person lived and who they
17:14
were living with
17:16
was already shaky in its foundations and
17:19
already difficult
17:20
or even abusive in its foundations this
17:23
has
17:23
happened you know covet has made it the
17:25
pandemic has made it
17:27
so much worse exponentially worse you
17:30
know so
17:31
the the rates of domestic violence has
17:33
has really soared
17:34
and so have the rights of divorce
17:37
interestingly enough too which
17:38
sort of makes sense it's almost like for
17:40
for divorce it's like
17:41
you know for some families they had been
17:45
you know couples and families they had
17:46
sort of had been living like roommates
17:48
if you will
17:49
there wasn't really a strong family
17:51
tying connection
17:52
and when everyone had to quarantine and
17:54
shelter at home like you said as you
17:56
mentioned the same four walls over and
17:57
over again
17:58
um the people said i don't even really
18:01
know
18:02
this person i had almost been like you
18:03
know and our teacher spiritual teachers
18:05
warn us about having our marriages turn
18:07
into like roommate situations
18:09
and coming to face almost like having to
18:11
face
18:12
the the the the strained relationship in
18:15
the marriage and yes that caused so many
18:17
divorces to happen
18:19
um lack of you know lack of all kinds of
18:21
things you mentioned financial resources
18:23
but also
18:24
just the homeschooling that people had
18:25
to take on if they hadn't been ready or
18:27
equipped to very suddenly
18:29
you know the um elder care and the the
18:32
constant worry
18:33
of of the health of all the different
18:35
family members especially if they were
18:37
at distance
18:37
from you and you couldn't get to them
18:39
there were just so many stressors and
18:40
strains on people that that's almost
18:42
like their bandwidth
18:43
went shorter and they couldn't um handle
18:46
kind of even what would have been
18:47
everyday normal circumstances to handle
18:50
the quarantine made it that much more
18:51
difficult to handle and shoulder
18:54
so we saw that with domestic life if you
18:57
will
18:57
and certainly with abusive situations
19:01
it has been very difficult and i really
19:03
want to call attention to that because i
19:04
think it's
19:05
imperative to really understand what
19:07
does that mean and how do we help
19:09
folks that are in those situations so
19:10
yes family life is really
19:12
um the adverse part of it is very clear
19:17
there is also the positives where people
19:20
were if they had healthy foundations
19:22
this potentially even though it was
19:24
difficult made them closer
19:26
knit to each other and more you know
19:28
parents and children spent more time
19:29
with each other and there were
19:30
things that our busy modern lifestyles
19:32
didn't allow for
19:34
it almost forced us to slow down and
19:37
you know take you know go on a hike with
19:39
your family right
19:40
or have actual conversation with your
19:42
family because that's all you could see
19:44
or at least with the people you were
19:45
living with right so
19:47
uh there were both i would say the
19:49
research and anecdotally and research
19:51
both have
19:52
shown that there's both the pros and
19:53
cons of this situation
19:56
um for that i mean at some stage i'd
19:58
love to hear more about your
20:00
your strategies um or your advice to
20:03
to families who are experiencing
20:04
difficulties in in the pandemics
20:06
hopefully in a in a
20:08
future episode inshallah um moving
20:11
forward
20:11
i'd like to just ask a very broad
20:14
question like
20:15
it's been a year now since covert um
20:18
what have we as muslims learned you
20:21
mentioned before that we learned that
20:23
allah is in
20:24
full control and i
20:27
fully acknowledge that what are the
20:30
other things that we've learned
20:32
as a community and as individuals with
20:34
regards to
20:35
like what can we take out after after a
20:37
year of this experience
20:40
subhanallah there are so many things to
20:41
take out of this experience and i think
20:43
we're still learning i don't think we
20:44
fully
20:45
have figured it out yet one thing um of
20:48
my list of things one thing is to
20:50
to remember this is something i actually
20:51
learned from the historical research we
20:53
were doing
20:54
was that um time
20:57
is not something that we own it's
20:59
something that allah owns
21:02
and um we always keep talking about
21:04
inshallah it's only going to be a year
21:06
you know first when we started was a
21:07
three
21:07
three weeks you know a couple months
21:10
okay maybe a year
21:10
but the reality is when i look back
21:12
historically at many of the plagues and
21:14
granted this is modern history and
21:16
that's pre-modern history in many cases
21:18
um and they didn't have the kind of
21:19
resources they have we have today
21:21
right like vaccines being developed
21:23
within the year before the year was even
21:24
up right
21:25
um and so this might change but still
21:28
many people want to put like a cap
21:30
on it has to end by this time and that's
21:33
not how
21:33
although does things right he determines
21:36
when it is
21:36
that things are going to start and end
21:39
um and so kind of remembering how for
21:41
some of the plagues in history
21:43
they went through cycles right like
21:46
spikes
21:46
of up and down up and down over a
21:48
century
21:50
like it would be one plague but it would
21:51
cycle throughout and so inshallah that
21:53
doesn't happen to us where it's like
21:55
you know a century worth of code right
21:57
inshallah it's eradicated well before
21:59
that but
21:59
to think about um what does that mean in
22:01
terms of our relationship with
22:04
time and how much do we take it for
22:07
granted
22:08
and how much is there barakah and
22:09
blessing or lack thereof
22:11
in our time and i i do really believe
22:14
that that's one of the biggest lessons
22:15
out of this needing to
22:17
uh you know literally put everything to
22:20
a standstill and nothing is happening at
22:21
the speed
22:22
it's supposed to happen in modern times
22:25
right
22:26
subhanallah that's one big lesson i
22:28
think another is
22:29
um you you called it realigning which i
22:32
really agree with kind of realigning the
22:33
way we look at the world
22:35
and opportunities one of the most
22:38
positive things that i think and i'll
22:39
speak here from the women's
22:40
world if you will uh we were speaking
22:42
earlier ramadan
22:43
and how you were mentioning how
22:45
community has was you know is a really
22:47
key factor and it's really felt like
22:49
it's been very different almost like
22:50
you've lost
22:51
community in this quarantine and i think
22:53
many would say agree with you men and
22:54
women both
22:56
on the woman's side it's really
22:57
interesting because for many women their
22:59
complaint forever
23:00
has been a lack of community
23:04
because they can't not because of a
23:06
pandemic we're talking pre-pandemic
23:07
couldn't get to
23:09
the masjid or mosque community in the
23:11
first place right
23:12
and there were limited opportunities to
23:14
engage and somehow virtually
23:17
that's changed if you look at last
23:19
ramadan
23:20
you know there were so many
23:22
opportunities for women to engage
23:24
in ibadah right in worship virtually
23:27
right through these online portals
23:30
and women's and males scholars and
23:32
speakers and
23:33
and so many women were saying they
23:34
prayed that we are for the very first
23:36
time in their lives because
23:37
male members of their family were
23:38
praying at home or they themselves
23:40
attempted it
23:41
at home for the first time or attempted
23:43
like an attica for
23:44
at home because women can right at home
23:46
for the first time
23:47
because they didn't have the social
23:49
obligations of cooking for everybody and
23:51
inviting and cleaning up after everybody
23:53
and they were you know that
23:54
ramadan brings about so there was a lack
23:57
of community on one hand
23:58
but there was all kinds of other
24:00
spiritual openings and growth
24:02
on the other hand so one other thing
24:04
we're learning from all of this is maybe
24:06
you know what are we uh inshallah what
24:09
are we meant to take
24:10
out of all of this because i think about
24:11
when kovitz ends and misajit are open
24:13
again
24:14
will the woman lose all of what they
24:15
gained spiritually and access
24:16
access-wise
24:18
like it's maybe it helps us kind of
24:19
rethink and reshift
24:22
how we run a lot of our institutions and
24:24
organizations right
24:26
childhood um i think um i just add to
24:30
that the
24:30
the idea of uh trusting allah
24:34
when i think of the pandemic i think of
24:36
allah
24:37
as al-wakir because
24:40
you're you're faced with many doors
24:43
closing in your face
24:45
both in terms of work in terms of
24:49
social activities in terms of community
24:52
in terms of extended family maybe seeing
24:55
extended family or seeing your
24:57
grandparents and
24:58
and there's a lot of challenges that
24:59
come but allah somehow
25:02
uh in his wisdom uh is able to provide
25:05
during this uh during this pandemic so
25:08
for me the the biggest
25:09
lesson was that you know allah is in
25:12
control absolutely and
25:14
uh it's it's it's important to trust in
25:18
allah and not
25:19
uh think that we have our hands on on
25:21
every lever in our life
25:23
um i'm going to ask you a random
25:26
question i i didn't add this in in the
25:28
earlier um plan for this episode but i
25:31
i feel like answering uh asking i think
25:33
maybe i'm inspired by all the books
25:35
behind you
25:36
um if there is uh
25:39
if there's one name of allah ta'ala
25:43
of the 99 names and attributes
25:46
that comes to the fore when you think of
25:49
the pandemic and
25:50
and the research that you've you've
25:52
undergone
25:53
in your various capacities what is one
25:56
name of allah subhana tala that comes to
25:58
mind
25:59
when you think of the pandemic i think
26:02
uh the one that's really really i found
26:05
myself connecting to quite a bit
26:07
is
26:10
and for me the reason for that is
26:13
because when i think about
26:14
even in the origins of the word and what
26:16
the word is originally tied to and
26:18
especially as a woman i have to say this
26:19
is very powerful for me because
26:21
the um you know
26:26
and named and named the room
26:30
after his own name because it is
26:33
what it does right it's it's very much i
26:35
think about this quarantine and how it's
26:36
exactly felt this way
26:38
it is um it is an isolative
26:41
protective nurturing
26:44
place that allows you to grow and to
26:47
really be able to sustain this next
26:50
stage of life right this fetus that's
26:51
growing inside that's going to become a
26:53
child inshallah one day
26:54
once it's ready to be born and i feel so
26:57
much of this quarantine has done that
26:59
like it's made us you know isolate from
27:03
everything else around us
27:04
and for those who've tapped into the
27:06
spiritual into spirituality and deen i
27:09
hope inshallah it's also helped us
27:10
nurture
27:11
that relationship and then inshallah
27:13
once it's ready to be done and over it's
27:15
almost like the cocoon right the cocoon
27:17
where you the caterpillar came in
27:19
unbeknown to all of us we came into this
27:21
cacoon right
27:22
and then if it goes well then
27:24
insha'allah
27:25
once this is all over we meant are meant
27:27
to emerge out of it
27:28
like that newborn baby like that
27:30
butterfly right that's meant to come out
27:31
on the other end and that's all from the
27:33
rahmah of allah subhanahu wa ta'ala
27:37
that's kind of kept us in quarantine in
27:40
this period of time that's that's what i
27:41
would say it's most been
27:43
the parallel that's most connected to me
27:46
you've been uh
27:47
really positive during this episode um i
27:50
didn't think we're going to be that kind
27:52
of
27:52
hopeful um talking about uh covert 19.
27:55
um i'm going to kind of flip the table
27:57
uh and suggest a scenario to you
27:59
um and uh basically uh
28:03
what if there was someone who you know
28:06
you were saying that
28:07
that it's been a net positive by and
28:09
large to
28:10
85 or 75 of muslims you know they feel
28:13
closer to god um
28:16
and what if i'm one of those 25 percent
28:19
who when i think of the pandemic
28:22
i think of allah punishing me
28:27
number one and number two i've struggled
28:30
in the last year
28:31
uh my marriage broke down um my
28:34
you know my wealth has has decreased
28:37
um i've lost my job and i certainly
28:41
haven't used this last year to get
28:44
closer to allah
28:46
what's what's your take on someone in
28:49
that
28:50
bucket absolutely and that bucket is a
28:53
very
28:54
very very important bucket because the
28:56
reality is
28:57
and i want to make this very clear too
28:58
there is that 25 percent i don't believe
29:00
that
29:01
it's that and we're just this is
29:02
statistics remember like these are
29:04
numbers this is not
29:05
etched in stone we as humans are fluid
29:08
we move all the time and how we think
29:09
and feel about things move with it
29:11
and even though in those studies yes 25
29:14
percent
29:14
are it was a 75 25 kind of split but
29:17
even from the 75 i want to make this
29:19
very clear
29:20
it's not like it's a net positive so i
29:22
like what you said they are net positive
29:23
but on a day-to-day basis right our
29:26
iman our faith and our connection to
29:28
allah is kind of like waves that go up
29:30
and down and up and down so it's not
29:32
always high like if you were to talk to
29:34
me on another day
29:35
right where all kinds of things are
29:37
breaking down around me i might say to
29:38
you the opposite as well
29:40
right subhanallah but the hope is that
29:41
the net positive
29:43
it would be a net positive at the end of
29:44
it right that in the ups and the downs
29:46
the struggles
29:47
that actually would come out on the
29:48
other side right
29:51
understanding that actually allahu adam
29:53
whether this is a test a lot of people
29:54
have asked you know is this a test this
29:55
is a punishment
29:56
right and so these are two different
29:59
things we know the test part
30:00
because allah has stated it as such in
30:02
the quran allah about the punishment
30:06
it could be for some and it could be not
30:08
for the others right
30:09
and that's what the study interestingly
30:11
enough we actually asked that very
30:12
question on the study as well
30:14
and we found that the overwhelming
30:15
majority of muslims in the study
30:17
actually believed
30:18
that this pandemic was a
30:23
there was like about a 12 percent who
30:24
felt that it was a punishment and so but
30:27
it was it's significantly
30:28
the minority right compared to the
30:30
majority who understood or felt that
30:32
this is yes a test the tribulation it is
30:34
difficult but
30:35
you can't necessarily call it a
30:36
punishment and
30:38
um and so to speak to the person who's
30:40
kind of going through
30:42
difficulty who this has been a very very
30:44
difficult year
30:45
is to acknowledge you and to say i hear
30:47
you and that is
30:49
your truth and that is real right and
30:52
from here the question then becomes and
30:55
now what would you like to do with it
30:57
right because sometimes it takes falling
30:59
to rock bottom
31:01
to be able to get back up again
31:03
sometimes it takes
31:04
falling flat on our face and losing
31:06
everything and kind of before you're
31:08
able to dust yourself off and kind of
31:10
mend the scrapes and the bruises and the
31:12
so on and to get up again
31:13
and to be it to actually become better
31:16
even better than before and that allah
31:19
subhanahu ta'ala replaces
31:21
one of the duas the prophet sallallahu
31:22
alaihi would often say is that
31:24
um may allah replace what you have lost
31:28
with better than you can even have
31:30
imagined right
31:32
and sometimes that's what happens with
31:33
loss we literally shed
31:35
off what we think and we hold we want to
31:37
hold on so much to that what we used to
31:39
have because
31:40
it was ours but nothing actually in the
31:42
studio is actually ours right but we
31:44
hold on to it because we think it's ours
31:46
but then almost on it makes it go right
31:48
he sheds it from us that we literally
31:50
shed
31:50
from our whole system and ourselves only
31:53
to then grow into something that is
31:55
actually better
31:56
to move forward and that's been a
31:57
consistent theme in this covid
32:00
era that we've been in and i pray that
32:02
this what we would come from it is
32:03
actually better
32:04
inshallah ta'ala but i hear you and it
32:06
is real
32:07
and never minimizing the difficulty
32:10
that's come through this
32:11
subhanallah so dr ranya let's just let's
32:14
assume
32:15
i'm doing it tough during the pandemic i
32:18
don't have
32:18
a very strong immediate circle um you
32:21
know i'm i'm
32:22
cut off from friends and family and i'm
32:24
really struggling and i don't feel
32:26
close to allah what's what's your advice
32:29
to
32:30
to me absolutely and i think this is so
32:32
important to make sure that
32:34
anybody who feels like what you've
32:36
described that this has been difficult
32:38
and it has been difficult
32:40
to actually make sure that we reach out
32:42
for help and i'll tell you why
32:44
you may have heard advice like this
32:45
before but but here's my take on it my
32:47
take on it is that
32:49
you know in the quran and yes i'm going
32:50
to quote here
32:52
that you know allah specifically asks us
32:56
to make sure to ask the people of
32:59
knowledge
32:59
if we do not know and when a person is
33:03
in need of help and is struggling and is
33:04
having a hard time and things are not
33:06
seen i mean
33:07
the gray clouds are not going away right
33:09
things seem really bleak
33:11
reaching out for help and asking someone
33:14
who does know or
33:15
can help or is even trained right as a
33:17
professional
33:18
a mental health professional a counselor
33:20
a person who has the kind of
33:23
ability to help not only is important
33:27
but actually i would say is part of our
33:29
deen and so i really recommend
33:31
that you know we tune into that and we
33:33
we take away all the
33:35
you know any shame or discomfort or
33:37
stigma or
33:38
so on of asking for help or even saying
33:40
oh what does it mean to talk to a
33:42
counselor or a professional
33:43
in the these this is exactly if again if
33:45
covetous taught us
33:46
anything it's that all of us are
33:48
struggling everybody
33:50
and in that struggle we have a spectrum
33:53
there are those who are able to do this
33:55
you know because of the different
33:56
resources and networks and so on that
33:58
they have
33:58
to get through or just what their person
34:01
experiencing maybe isn't allah tells us
34:03
right he's going to give us each test
34:05
that differ from one another
34:06
and so for some they're on the spectrum
34:08
that they're able to actually get
34:10
through this without that extra level of
34:11
help
34:12
but for others and then many of us we
34:14
actually do need that help
34:16
and so i really want to recommend that
34:17
we reach out for that kind of help and
34:19
care
34:20
and that inshallah once you knock on the
34:22
doors allah will help open them
34:24
inshallah
34:27
um i have one last question um as has
34:30
become tradition in
34:31
in the double take podcast if my
34:35
say nine year old niece was to come to
34:37
you and ask
34:39
i hate covert i'm sick of it
34:42
i don't get to see my extended family
34:47
the good thing is that i'm seeing my my
34:48
parents more often or
34:50
you know my dad's more at home and
34:52
working from home and my mom's
34:53
you know helping me with school work but
34:57
i i i'm not enjoying it um
35:00
and it is affecting putting a strain on
35:04
my family's life
35:05
um and it's changed my life upside down
35:08
is this
35:09
a punishment from allah this is my
35:12
nine-year-old niece
35:13
asking and when will allah free
35:16
everything up again
35:18
i would say to your lovely nine-year-old
35:20
niece who's very very emotional very
35:21
insightful
35:23
i would say to her you know allah adam
35:27
right the reality is i don't know and i
35:29
don't have the answers only allah knows
35:32
and when he's ready to let this lift
35:33
from us it will get lifted
35:35
that much i can tell you and that with
35:38
the difficulty will come ease that much
35:40
i can tell you because allah stated so
35:42
in the quran
35:43
but ultimately is this a punishment
35:47
it is a test and it is difficult and it
35:50
has strained
35:51
our relationships and our families
35:52
you're probably missing your friends and
35:54
life the way you knew it beforehand and
35:56
i pray that allah
35:58
gets us all through this and so we're
36:00
going to have to kind of get through
36:01
this
36:01
together and know that we're all in this
36:04
together
36:05
right and if she's able to comprehend
36:06
that piece of it then we can you know
36:08
move forward with that discussion and
36:10
kind of
36:10
sometimes especially with our younger
36:12
folks but even ourselves
36:14
kind of reassurance of saying you know
36:16
this is one of those tough things in
36:18
life
36:19
but this too shall pass dr ranya
36:22
jazakallah
36:23
for joining double take thank you so
36:25
much and your work on
36:26
on the pandemic and the research you did
36:28
on the pandemic but also everything else
36:30
you're doing
36:30
at stanford and everywhere else
36:32
mashallah that you're working
36:35
and thank you for joining uh yeah
36:37
institute's podcast double take
36:39
baruch thank you so much for having me
36:41
it's been a pleasure and my duas
36:42
with all of you please keep me in your
36:44
duas as well
36:45
assalamualaikum guys we hope you've
36:47
enjoyed the first half of this first
36:49
season
36:50
of double take we're going on hiatus for
36:52
ramadan
36:53
so that you can focus on your worship
36:54
and not have to see me all the time
36:57
feel free to visit the akin youtube
36:59
channel to see all the ramadan content
37:01
from yakreen institute salaam alaikum
37:08
you